reloading questions/advice if you would please?
- Thread starter Old_Me
- Start date
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
No, it's the new model Lee Breech lock 'O' frame press which uses the Breech lock bushings. It has a spring loaded button that locates the bushing rotation/insertion holding the die in place. He ordered a Forster puller to use with it but the Forster lock ring was too big in diameter and prevented the locate button from popping up. I think he ordered a new lock ring, but from Forster instead of Lee or other. The Forster is by design a little too wide to work with the Breech lock bushings I'm thinking. jj
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Actually it just occurred to me that if he has ordered the "colored lock rings" which I think he's talking about the Lee lock ring eliminator, he won't even need a lock ring of either brand.
Old_Me, several msg's back you said you had ordered the "colored" lock rings from Natches. If what you ordered is the same as the picture I'm attaching, you won't even need a lock ring. These are lock ring eliminators and once you insert them, then insert your tool ... die, puller, reamer, etc, you tighten the tiny screw on the side and from then on don't even worry about the little button. No matter which direction you insert the bushing, it goes to the same depth every time. All you have to do is hold the button down to turn it all out when you want it gone. See my attachment below and let us
know.
Old_Me, several msg's back you said you had ordered the "colored" lock rings from Natches. If what you ordered is the same as the picture I'm attaching, you won't even need a lock ring. These are lock ring eliminators and once you insert them, then insert your tool ... die, puller, reamer, etc, you tighten the tiny screw on the side and from then on don't even worry about the little button. No matter which direction you insert the bushing, it goes to the same depth every time. All you have to do is hold the button down to turn it all out when you want it gone. See my attachment below and let us
Old_Me
SAINT
the Lee bushings i am getting do not have the screws, as a result, makes those bushings "shorter". the Forster lock ring will be used to lock the Forster die onto the Lee, it's the same size as the lock nut on the die.
it is a bullet puller, not a seating die.
i am going to try 2 different approaches to the set up
1) with the already Lee bushing and the round Forster lock nut, that will not interfere with the Lee's locking button
2) with the Lee colored bushing, THEN the hex Forster nut. then this will BYPASS the Lee's locking button
pics to follow, when this gets done
and yes, i do know how those bushings work, but i could not tighten the Forster hex nut, as it jammed against the Lee's button, not allowing me to tighten the die.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Yeh, I knew it was a puller, but the Forster bullet puller mounts to the Forster press in the same way as the dies ... with the sliding/floating oversized lock rings. Hope it works out for you. I'm pullin' for ya! jj
rcurtner
Professional
Please correct me if I'm wrong. It seems, from what I've read, Lee single stage presses are temperamental as to brands and style of various dies that can be used. I don't have any experience with Lee products. Maybe the Lee presses offer features that are superior to other presses, don't know.
Old_Me
SAINT
in order to use dies, of the same size, in some of thier presses, you need a "bushing" that fits into the press, for quick removal, with out messing the adjustments.
my Lee single stage has that bushing, that the Forster fits into.
however, there is a "pop up button" that prevents the bushing from coming loose.. the Forster hex nut (locking nut), jams that pop up button, and therefore allows that bushing to rotate, making it impossible to lock the Forster die solid to the press
so now, (if you refer to my pictures), i am getting a set of colored bushings. i will replace the original bushing, as it ride flat to the press, that my hope is to then finally lock that Forster die down solid.
and i also went ahead and ordered the Forster round lock collar as a back up, if i have to replace the Forster hex lock nut.
not all Lee presses have that bushing set up.
and for certain, the RCBS that i looked at does not either, it has a regular hex nut mounted into the press
rcurtner
Professional
My MEC press has the same hex nut as the rock chucker. The Forster bullet puller mounts directly no problem. I can see an advantage of maintaining die settings. My Forster puller along with other dies have lock rings with set screws in them to lock settings in place. The set screws have a lead shot to aid in not damaging the die threads.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
No, Lee single stage presses are not temperamental to anything. How they are different is that Lee has perfected a 'quick change' bushing system (very similar to Harnady's) for all single stage presses to make the changing of dies, especially a convenience for batch loaders, exceptionally quick and convenient. All the presses come with one 'quick change' bushing but more can be purchased for little money.
But to answer the question, with the bushing any/all (except BMG 50 cal) dies can be used. The thread size is 7/8 x 14 iirc which is what the inside threads in the bushings are. So dies and other assorted tools from almost any manufacturer can be used as with any other brand of presses. In some few cases it may require a slight modification to use certain tools with the bushings.
Here's a quick C/P from the Lee site itself:
"Lee single stage presses all have compound leverage, which permits full length sizing the largest magnum cases with ease. All have built in spent primer catchers and tough powder coat finish. Breech Lock quick change feature standard on all presses, change dies instantly with a twist of the wrist. Individual detailed instructions accompany each press."
The text color change is my emphasis of the assertion. Hope this helps. jj
But to answer the question, with the bushing any/all (except BMG 50 cal) dies can be used. The thread size is 7/8 x 14 iirc which is what the inside threads in the bushings are. So dies and other assorted tools from almost any manufacturer can be used as with any other brand of presses. In some few cases it may require a slight modification to use certain tools with the bushings.
Here's a quick C/P from the Lee site itself:
"Lee single stage presses all have compound leverage, which permits full length sizing the largest magnum cases with ease. All have built in spent primer catchers and tough powder coat finish. Breech Lock quick change feature standard on all presses, change dies instantly with a twist of the wrist. Individual detailed instructions accompany each press."
The text color change is my emphasis of the assertion. Hope this helps. jj
Old_Me
SAINT
no, my Pro-4000 does not have the bushing set up. i have to use the Lee locking rings for that
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Your Pro 4000 is not single stage, it's a progressive. jj
Old_Me
SAINT
ok, i had to re-read the beginning of that paragraph......where it mentions ALL single stage Lee presses....
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Don't know when it happened but now even the Pro 4000 and the Six Pack progressives also use the quick change bushings. I'm not sure about the early model 'Pro 1000' but there is a version called the '2023 Pro 1000' which I think has the bushing system as well. Your 4000 was apparently built before the change. I'm pretty sure at some point all their presses will utilize the Breech lock bushings if not already. jj
PS: A little bird told me recently that the 4000 is currently under consideration for modification to add the direct prime system to it just like on the Six Pack and the 2023 1000. The 4000 is still using the 'safety prime' system which is extremely reliable but a little finicky/tricky until the user becomes familiar with it. btw: I use it on my turret press and love it.
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Old_Me
SAINT
in no order:
the safety prime is a gigantic PITA...but, i did the "soak in hot water trick" to soften the primer piece, put a bolt in it, let it cool, and it stays "wider", and it works way better. ( i linked a video i believe in this thread many posts ago)
the quick change bushings are a neat idea, for maybe the single stage and maybe a turret press, but i ain't too sure about the progressives...all it really does to any press, beyond the single/turret, is make the mounting area a bit larger.
i got my 4000 around July/Aug of 2022
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Hey Old_Me, I was bouncing around Youtube some tonight and decided to look for some info on the Lee Safety Prime system that might help you. I hate seeing/hearing you having so much trouble with a set up as good as what you have, and hate you feeling the Safety prime system is a "gigantic PITA". Take a look at these two videos and hopefully you'll see, hear, or find a tip or two that will help you some. Go to each link and to the time stamp (4:30 in both videos) for the meat of the issue unless you just want to watch the whole thing. Both of these videos are using the Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro which is the precursor of the 4000 Pro and almost an exact duplicate in every respect ... especially in the priming process. Both presses prime exactly the same way and with the same set up.
I doubt there's a lot of anything else in either to help you, but they're both helpful on the Safety prime system. I hope there's something in them to help and you can get some enjoyment out of your 4000 Pro and especially the priming system. It's truly a great loading system and I just hate seeing you have so many issues with it. The guy in the second video is brand new to the use of the press and a little intimidated by it and he admits it's new to him and he's still learning the whole system. But he does a fairly good job explaining how the priming system works for him.
Oh yeh, one other thing. There's also a short video explaining the differences in the three versions of the Safety Prime system. We discovered your 4000 was an early version, but I'm sure you have the latest version of the Safety prime from the post you made showing what you did with the little 1/4" bolt trick. So both the first two videos will apply to your Safety prime system more so than the actual press.
For many years I primed off the press almost exclusively in a semi 'batch loading' system. Then I got hold of the Safety prime (same version you have) and never looked back. I did have a little confusion issue in the original set up some time ago, but after figuring it out I honestly don't remember ever dropping or turning a primer after many 100's, maybe 1,000's. My hand held priming tool (Lee 'New' Auto Prime) sits idly by collecting dust while I prime on press now. So much faster, easier, and much more convenient.
Here are the links to the videos, give them a look-see and good luck! Let us know how you make out friend.
Old_Me
SAINT
uh, no..my issue was primers falling onto the floor, until i searched for a way to stop that, and as of now, it still works....
video for the trick starts at 4:10
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Oh OK, I thought you were having other issues with it and the falling primers to the floor was on the Dillon. Didn't you make some kind of cup or something to prevent that?
Anyway, just trying to help. When you called the Safety prime a "gigantic PITA", it sounded pretty serious.
As for the bushings, they're not as beneficial to you as to those who have only one press to use for more than one caliber. They make it much quicker and easier to change out the entire set of dies when if one wants to change to another caliber rather than having to screw each die completely out, then screw another set of dies back in and set each one up individually along with changing out the shell plate.
Not all of us are as young, good looking, debonair, and well loved as you are and fortunate enough to have two great progressive presses. LOL!
jj
Anyway, just trying to help. When you called the Safety prime a "gigantic PITA", it sounded pretty serious.
As for the bushings, they're not as beneficial to you as to those who have only one press to use for more than one caliber. They make it much quicker and easier to change out the entire set of dies when if one wants to change to another caliber rather than having to screw each die completely out, then screw another set of dies back in and set each one up individually along with changing out the shell plate.
Not all of us are as young, good looking, debonair, and well loved as you are and fortunate enough to have two great progressive presses. LOL!
jj
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Old_Me
SAINT
spent primers were falling on the floor from the DIllon.
i had to remove the stupid cotter pin they use for the "catch trap", with a paper clip..then i bought a neat device3D printed that directs the spent primers in to the catch bin.
an out of focused picture, of the ultra deluxe paper clip, that worked better than the EL Cheapo cotter pin...which the paper clip, allows free'er movement of the catch trap.